The Rafidhi vagabond Ammar ‘Nakshawani’ (Nakshavani), is known for his numerous lectures (strictly under Shia and ignorant Sunni audience, never ever has he confronted a known Sunni scholar), where he obviously tries to point with his shabby gentility in the fields of rethoric speech, this is the only way he can somehow hide his blatant ignorance and in many cases blatant lies, against the Ahl Al-Sunnah and the Sahabah of the Messenger of Allah (may the peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him). He is known for visiting various institutions, including public universities where he tries hard to somehow save the face of the Rafidhi religion (a really hard task, indeed), by claiming that many things the opponents of Shias accuse them of are false and propaganda, that Shias are not Takfiris, do not do Takfir on the Sahabah, that they only disagree with SOME Sahabah blah, blah, blah. Ironically, no one else but those Rafidha Majoos who are a bit more open in regards to their beliefs have exposed the charlatan Nakhjavani to such a degree, that only a fool would fall for his “brotherhood-Sunni-Shia-unity” crap:
Ok, IF you were among those gullible Muslims (or even Shias) who thought that there is any difference between ANY SHIA scholar/preacher etc. when it comes to the Sahaba and the wives of the Prophet, then know that there is no difference, Yasser Al-Habib, Baqir Al-Majlisi, Al-Mufid etc. did openly Takfir on Aisha and called her the murderer of the Prophet (!), so does the schmuck Nakhjavani, the only difference is, Nakhjavani the charlatan (as he himself said once!) will have a life after his preaching career i.e. he don’t want to mention the hot stuff in their books (Takfir on Aisha, accusing her of being a fornicator, Takfir on 99% of the Sahaba etc.), for he wants to have a peaceful and lavish life, once he has robbed his stupid followers of their money (with lies, deceptions and tricks). Anyway, coming to the topic at hand, one can see that the charlatan Nakhshavani is seemingly getting more and more open about those beliefs he normally never mentions in universities. Here the clip, and we know it’s tedious and accompanied by his hideous and arrogant way of speaking, one can’t but vomit at least, once, but try to hold yourself, and if you don’t want to watch the whole lecture it’s fine enough, we just don’t want anyone to accuse us of having refuted a ghost:
Nakhjavani claims:
The incident of al-Ifk has got nothing whatsoever to do with Aisha and her innocence, in fact she and the Sahaba accused the Prophet’s wive Maria (the Coptic) of Adultery!
Gift2shias rebuttal:
1. The Ayah says:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ جَاؤُوا بِالْإِفْكِ عُصْبَةٌ مِّنكُمْ لَا تَحْسَبُوهُ شَرّاً لَّكُم بَلْ هُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ لِكُلِّ امْرِئٍ مِّنْهُم مَّا اكْتَسَبَ مِنَ الْإِثْمِ وَالَّذِي تَوَلَّى كِبْرَهُ مِنْهُمْ لَهُ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ
Verily! Those who brought forth the slander are a group among you (Munafiqs). Consider it not a bad thing for you (plural i.e. Prophet AND Sahaba/believers). Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment.
Now the Sighah Al-Jam’ (addressing someone in the plural) has only been used for Allah subhanah in the Qur’an. Like we/us etc., it is the majestic plural (pluralis maiestatis in Latin, literally, “the plural of majesty”), this is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office. Now are the Rawafidh and Nakhjavani telling us that Aisha, the Mother of the Believers hold a high position in the sight of Allah, hence He (SWT) addressed her with “those”?!?! After all the heretic claims that Aisha’ accused Maryam the Coptic of Zina (fornication)! Surah 11-20 of Surah Al-Nur addresses a group of Hypocrites (like the Shia), read it to convince yourself.
Note: No one claims that these Ayat are for Aisha only, but they were particularly revealed for her (case).
Only their sanad-less, weak and fabricated narrations (acc. to their OWN standars like in “Al-Hidayah Al-Kubra” by Imam Al-Ridha in which Abu Bakr, Omar and Hafsa are also implicated in the false accusations against Maria. Nakhjavani, as the coward he is mentions it, without mentioning the name of the Sahaba though!) report that OTHER than Aaisha accused Maria of Zina too, due to their extreme weakness they can’t be taken as a proof (yet Nakhjavani builds his theory upon that weak narration) what is left for them are other narrations (in Shia sources) that accuse Aaisha ONLY, but this again contradict the verses that says a GROUP accused (acc. to the Rafidha) Maria of Zina. So even their AUTHENTIC narrations are in their essence contradictory to the Qur’an and history (as you will see, In Shaa Allah), and the extreme weak, rather sanad-less (!) narration he mentions (where Abu Bakr, Omar, Hafsa etc. joined Aisha in accusing Maria of Zina) shouldn’t be taken as evidence in the first place, by a HONEST researcher at least. Qur’an as usual refutes Rafidhi lies.
2. The Ayat about the incident of Al-Ifk were revealed in the 5th or 6th year after Hijra. Maria Al-Qibtiyyah came to the Prophet (صل الله عليه و على آله و سلم) AFTER he had sent invitation letters to Persia, Rome and Egypt. When the letter/invitation of the Messenger reached the Egyptian King, he in return sent MARIA to the Prophet (as you know the PERSIAN MAJOOSI KINGS ripped the letter of the Prophet apart), this was in the year 7th or 8th.
Conclusion: (basic maths, Nakhjavani did not mention a SINGLE time in his whole lecture!):
Ayat were revealed in : 5th/6th Hijra ( This is the strongest view and some even say the ‘Ijma’, confirmed by the biggest historians of Islam, like Ibn Ishaq in his Tarikh and others. Musa bin Uqbah, whose Tareekh is arguably better than Ibn Ishaaq, even suggests that Al-Ifk happened in the year 4 AH, so from WHATEVER angle you look at it, be it the 4 AH or 5/6AH all of them expose the Rafidhi fabricated view):
Maria came to the Prophet in : 7th/8th Hijra
I think the calculation and its result is obvious to everyone except the braindead Rawafidh who potray the household of the Prophet as a house of Fahshaa’ (obscenity), where his wives are adulteresses and the adulteresse+kafir wive accuses the other wive of adultery, yet the Prophet keeps them all (while possessing the knowledge of the unseen according to the pagan Shia sect) and never divorces any of them, what a sick religion Rafidhism is.
It i also noteworthy that Ammar Nakshawani’s main source (for his Rafidhi version) is a Hadith in Tafseer Al-Qummi and Bihar Al-Anwar aka Bihar Al-Dhulumat aka Jame’ Al-Khurafat and other books of Zandaqah (heresy). The curse of Allah be upon the liars, liars such as Ammar who KNOW the truth, yet they hide it and deceive even their own followers with lies upon lies. They lie and prefer fabricated and disgusting narrations over the truth. Here the translation of the Bihar Al-Dhulamat wa Al-Zandaqat (“Al-Anwar”), narration, just read it and try not to vomit, look how sick this disgusting, pagan, polytheistic Majoosi cult is:
The narration that accuses Aisha of havins accused Maria of Zina in Bihar Al-Anwar:
العلامة المجلسي – بحار الأنوار – الجزء : ( 76 ) – رقم الصفحة : ( 103 )- حدثنا : محمد بن جعفر ، قال : ، حدثنا : محمد بن عيسى ، عن ، الحسن بن علي بن فضال قال : ، حدثني عبد الله بن بكير ، عن زرارة قال : سمعت أبا جعفر (ع) يقول : لما هلك إبراهيم بن رسول الله (ص) حزن عليه رسول الله (ص) حزناً شديداً ، فقالت عائشة : ما الذى يحزنك عليه ؟ فما هو إلاّ إبن جريج ، فبعث رسول الله (ص) علياًً (ع) وأمره بقتله ، فذهب علي (ع) إليه ومعه السيف وكان جريج القبطى في حائط فضرب علي (ع) باب البستان فأقبل إليه جريج ليفتح له الباب ، فلما رأى علياًً عرف في وجهه الشر فأدبر راجعاً ولم يفتح الباب ، فوثب علي (ع) على الحائط ونزل إلى البستان وأتبعه وولى جريح مدبراً ، فلما خشى أن يرهقه صعد في نخلة وصعد علي (ع) في إثره ، فلما دنا منه رمى جريج بنفسه من فوق النخلة فبدت عورته ، فإذا ليس له : ما للرجال ولا له : ما للنساء ، فإنصرف علي (ع) إلى النبي (ص) ، فقال : يا رسول الله إذا بعثتني في الأمر أكون فيه كالمسمار المحمى أم إثبت ؟ ، قال : لا بل إثبت ، قال : والذى بعثك بالحق ماله : ما للرجال وماله : ما للنساء ، فقال : الحمد لله الذى صرف عنا السوء أهل البيت.
On the authority of : Majlisi in his “Bihar Al-Anwar”, vol. 76, page 103 – Muhammad Ibn Jaafar said: It is reported to us by: Muhammad Ibn Isaa – Al-Hassan Ibn Ali Ibn Fadhl who said that is reported that – Abdullah Ibn Bakeer – Zurarah [ زرارة شر من اليهود والنصارى ومن قال ان الله ثالث ثلاثة – كذب علي والله، لعن الله زرارة] said: I heard Aba Ja’far (Al-Baqir) (ع) saying: “When Ibrahim the son of the Messenger of Allah (ص) demised, the Messenger of Allah (ص) felt deep sorrow for him so Aaisha said : What is it that makes you sad about him? He was just the son of Jurayh [i.e. Maria the mother of Ibrahim betrayed the Prophet with Jurayh!]. Thereupon the Messenger (ص) sent Ali (ع) to kill him [Jurayh], so Ali (ع) while carrying a sword went to him and Jurayh the Qibti (the Coptic) was in his garden so Ali (ع) struck the gate of the garden thereupon Jurayh embraced him and was about to open the door. When Jurayh saw Ali (ع) he knew by looking at Ali’s (ع) face that he (Ali) was up to something bad (i.e. angry) so Jurayh turned back and did not open the gate, so Ali (ع) jumped over the wall and entered the garden and followed him while Jurayh was running and was scared that Ali (ع) might make him tired so he decided to climb up a palm tree and Ali (ع) followed him up there. When Ali (ع) was about to catch him, Jurayh threw himsel off the palm tree and as a result his ‘Awra (private part) got exposed. [Ali saw] that he [Jurayh] did not have what males have and neither what females have [i.e. he was a Mukhannath/hermaphrodite]. So Ali (ع) went back to the Prophet (ص) and asked him: “O Messenger of Allaah, if you send me in regards to an issue, should I carry it out without hesitating or should I first verifiy it? He said: “No, verify first” So he said: “By the One that sent you with truth, he doesn’t have what men have nor does he have what women have.” He (Prophet) said: “All praise is due to Allaah the One that keeps evil away from us Ahl Al-Bayt“.
Note: They baltantly accuse Aaisha of having accused Maria of Zina, but in their zeal of fabricating narrations they missed to eridacate the part which is been found in Sunni literature too, i.e. “All praise is due to Allaah the One that keeps evil away from us Ahl Al-Bayt“. The Prophet – Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him, referred to his WIVE as Ahl Al-Bayt, here in SAHIH Sunni sources too:
وهو على المنبر: (يامعشر المسلمين، من يعذرني من رجل قد بلغني أذاه في أهل بيتي، فوالله ما علمت على أهلي إلا خيرا، ولقد ذكروا رجلا ما علمت عليه إلا خيرا، وما كان يدخل على أهلي إلا معي
[…] So Allah’s Apostle got up (and addressed) the people an asked for somebody who would take revenge on ‘Abdullah bin Ubai bin Salul (the one who accused Aisha of adultery!) then Allah’s Apostle, while on the pulpit, said, “O Muslims! Who will help me against a man who has hurt me by slandering my family/Ahli Bayti? By Allah, I know nothing except good about my family, and people have blamed a man of whom I know nothing except good, and he never used to visit my family except with me […[ Sahih Bukhari (Volume 6 hadith 274)
Also, if you’ve watched the clip of Nakhjavani above, then remember what he said at min. 46:00-46:10:
“… and honestly I don’t wanna bring the names of those who discussed it … who straight away BELIEVED this is the baby of Jurayh …”
Look at this coward Rafidhi, he already accused ‘Aaisha of having injustly accused a chaste woman of ZINA/ADULTERY! Do you know whom the Rawafidh and their sect of Shirk accuse of? Do you know who was amongst the FIRST to believe in this slander and to upset the Prophet? It was Abu Bakr the Siddiq and other major Sahaba according to the Rafidha, may Allah blacken their faces (even more):
Their Shaykh Al-Saduq (Al-Kathoob) narrated in his Al-Khisal in a long Hadith in which Ali Ibn Abi Talib addresses the people on the day of the Shura, and the narrative has been reported in Al-Hidayah Al-Kubra from Ali Ibn Musa Al-Ridha (Rafidha accuse him of being their 8th Imam, innocent is he of them and their sect of Shirk) in much detail, the problem for the Rafidha is that the author of this book Al-Husain ibn Hamdan is very weak), in which Abu Bakr, Omar and Hafsa are also implicated in the false accusations. Al–Saduq also narrated in Al-Ilal from Aby Jafar (Muhammad Al-Baqir, so called ‘5th infallible’):
“And when Al-Qaem (Rafidhi Mahdi) will stand, Al-Humayrah (nickname of Aisha, given by the Prophet!) will be returned to him until he has given her the punishment of flogging, and until he has avenged for the daughter of Mohammad, Fatima.” I said: “And why will he punish her by flogging?” He said: “For her calumny against the mother of Ibrahim (Maria the Copitc)”. I said: “So how has Allah delayed it for Al-Qaem?” He said: “For Allah Almighty sent Mohammad [s] as a mercy, and he will send Al-Qaem [a] as an avenger”.
*This narrative has also been narrated by the Rafidhi top scholars Al-Murtadha in his Al-Amali, from Mohammad ibn Al-Hanafiyyah from his father (but without mention of the complete isnad, nor any mention of Aishah).
The sincere truth-seeker should judge now, keeping the following points in his mind:
1. The disgusting and obvious fabricated report in Al-Hidayah Al-Kubra (by the Shia Rafidhi scholar Hussein bin Hamdan Al-Khusaybi) includes the narration that Ammar Nakhjavani mentions (yet he did not dare to mention the Sahaba’s names!), the narration that states that Abu Bakr, Omar, Hafsa joined Aisha in her false allegations against Maria. This narration is false and extremely weak, because the author of the book itself (Al-Khubaysi) is weak according to Shia standards they set themselves.
2. In other Shia books (like in Al-Amali by Al-Murtadha) that story has been mentioned too, but without even including Aisha.
What is left for the Shia (as stated before): Since the authenticity of the narration about the Sahaba (Abu Bakr, Omar and Hafsa!) being included in the list of accusers (!) can’t be established, the Shia and Nakhjavani have to drop their accusations against Abu Bakr, Omar and Hafsa. It is although a shame for them, that this narration is not authentic, because that one would make somehow sense, this is because as we have stated in the very beginning, the verses in Surah Al-Noor clearly address a GROUP, that is why Nakhjavani (without mentioning the weakness of the narration) included the WEAK narration of Al-Khubaysi in his lectures, he did not even give a hint about the authenticity (knowing that his blind followers give a monkey about authenticity). Anyway, what is left for Nakhjavani is quite devasting, for even their so called authentic narrations (like the Muwathaq (reliable in Shia Hadith science) narration inTafseer Al-Qummi, by Al-Qummi, does NOT mention a single word about a group, let alone the Sahaba, so ultimately even their ‘authentic’ narrations are of no use for their argumentation, because they clearly oppose the Qur’an (that mentions a GROUP, not just Aisha!). Here their “reliable” narration from Tafsir Al-Qummi:
تفسير القمي – (ج 2 / ص 97) واما قوله : ( ان الذين جاؤا بالافك عصبة منكم لا تحسبوه شرا لكم بل هو خير لكم ) فان العامة رووا انها نزلت في عائشة وما رميت به في غزوة بني المصطلق من خزاعة واما الخاصة فانهم رووا انها نزلت في مارية القبطية وما رمتها به عائشة والمنافقات .
حدثنا محمد بن جعفر قال: حدثنا محمد بن عيسى عن الحسن بن علي بن فضال قال: حدثنا عبد الله بن بكير عن زرارة، قال: سمعت أبا جعفر عليهما السلام يقول: لما مات إبراهيم ابن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله حزن عليه حزنا شديدا، فقالت عائشة: ما الذي يحزنك عليه؟ فما هو إلا ابن جُرَيْج. فبعث رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله عليًّا وأمره بقتله، فذهب علي عليه السلام إليه ومعه السيف. وكان جريج القبطي في حائط، وضرب عليّ عليه السلام باب البستان، فأقبل إليه جريج ليفتح له الباب. فلما رأى عليا عليه السلام عرف في وجهه الغضب فأدبر راجعا ولم يفتح الباب. فوثب علي عليه السلام على الحائط ونزل إلى البستان واتبعه وولى جريج مدبرا.
Tafsir Al-Qummi (vol. 2) : “As for His saying : (11:Verily! Those who brought forth the slander are a group among you. Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you), then the ‘Aammah (‘the commoners’ i.e. the Sunnis) have narrated that this verse was revealed for Aisha, when she was accused (of adultery) in the battle of Bani Mustalaq from Khazaa’ah. As for the Khaassah (‘the special ones, the Shia), then they narrated that this verse was revealed in regards to Maria the Coptic , when she was accused (of adulter) by Aisha and the hypocrite. [chain of narrators up to chemical Zurarah] Zurarah [ زرارة شر من اليهود والنصارى ومن قال ان الله ثالث ثلاثة – كذب علي والله، لعن الله زرارة] said: I heard Abu Ja’far (Al-Baqir) (ع) saying: “When Ibrahim the son of the Messenger of Allah (ص) demised, the Messenger of Allah (ص) felt deep sorrow for him so Aaisha said : What is it that makes you sad about him? He was just the son of Jurayh [i.e. Maria the mother of Ibrahim betrayed the Prophet with Jurayh!]. Thereupon the Messenger (ص) sent Ali (ع) to kill him [Jurayh], so Ali (ع) while carrying a sword went to him and Jurayh the Qibti (the Coptic) was in his garden so Ali (ع) struck the gate of the garden thereupon Jurayh embraced him and was about to open the door. When Jurayh saw Ali (ع) he knew by looking at Ali’s (ع) face that he (Ali) was up to something bad (i.e. angry) so Jurayh turned back and did not open the gate, so Ali (ع) jumped over the wall and entered the garden and followed him while Jurayh was running and was scared that Ali (ع) might make him tired so he decided to climb up a palm tree and Ali (ع) followed him up there. When Ali (ع) was about to catch him, Jurayh threw himself off the palm tree and as a result his ‘Awra (private part) got exposed. [Ali saw] that he [Jurayh] did not have what males have and neither what females have [i.e. he was a Mukhannath/hermaphrodite]. So Ali (ع) went back to the Prophet (ص) and asked him: “O Messenger of Allaah, if you send me in regards to an issue, should I carry it out without hesitating or should I first verifiy it? He said: “No, verify first” So he said: “By the One that sent you with truth, he doesn’t have what men have nor does he have what women have.” He (Prophet) said: “All praise is due to Allaah the One that keeps evil away from us Ahl Al-Bayt“.
Source: Al-Qummi Tafseer Al-Qummi, vol. 2, pg. 99 (under tafseer of 24:11), Hadith is Muwaththaq (Reliable).
NOTE: The same Ibrahim Al-Qummi is an OPEN Qur’an denier who according to Shia scholars themselves want into extremes in regards to the belief of Tahrif, yet he’s still regarded as one of their biggest scholars, he is their Ibn Kathir! just like Kulayni is their Imam Ahmad, yet the Rafidha scholars openly believed in the distortion of the Qur’an:
They are satisfied with those who disbelieved in the main Thaql
Have you read it? This Kafir Mushrik Al-Qummi (and Al-Majlisi the Safavid who narrated the same) i.e. their Ibn Kathir, their Tabari (imagine such things were in our Tafsir books!) has FILLED his Tafsir with RAFIDHI TAHRIF narrations, to such an extent, that Shia scholars themselves were shocked. This Kafir is the same who narrated the “Al-Ifk” version that the ignoramus Nakhjawani quotes. Says alot about these devil’s, doesn’t it? But wait, it get’s worse, for the Kafir Al-Qummi also narrated that Aisha (on her way to Basra) committed fornication (Zina) with the Sahabi Talha (تفسير القمي ج2 ص377 Tafsir Al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 377), may the curse of Allah be upon the Rafidha, from Kulayni to Khomeini.
To dissapoint those who think that perhaps, only the ancient, rotten ‘scholars’ of Shiism accused the wive of the Prophet, Aisha, the Mother of the Believers of having accused Maria the Coptic of adultery, here a contemporary Tafsir, Al-Mizan fi tafsiri’l-Qur’an, popularly known as Tafsir al-Mizan written by “Ayatullah” Muhammad Hussein Tabatabai, the wrinkle face of Shirk:
And here is what Tabatabai has said concerning the Tafsir of this (Surah Maidah, verse 11) verse:
“The ayah refers to the incident of al-Ifk. And (according) to the narration of the Ahl Al-Sunnah that a story of al-Ifk (big slander/audeltery) was thrown against Umm Al-Mu’minin Aishah, and (according) to narrations of the Shiah this was revealed for Maria the Coptic, mother of Ibrahim”.
Source: Tabatabai, Al-Meezaan fee Tafseer al-Qur’aan, vol. 15, pg. 89
Note how this Shaytan does not mention that his sect believes that Aisha (the one he called ‘Umm Al-Mu’minin for Taqiyyah reasons) accused Maria of adultery!
Finally we shall bring some proper, authentic narrations he desperately tried to undermine (they’ll be followed by a short and tidy refutation of the doubts Nakhjavani raised at some of the Ahadith/narrators):
From ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Ubayd who said: “Ibn Abbas (Bani Hashimi of the Ahl Al-Bayt) sought permission to enter upon Aaisha during her sickness which she died from (i.e. shortly before hear demise!). So she refused. And he continued to persist and seek permission until she agreed for him to enter. He entered and heard her saying: ‘I seek refuge by Allah from the fire. ‘He – Ibn Abbas – said: ‘ O Mother of the Believers, indeed Allah, the Most Glorious, The Most Mighty has exempted you from the fire. You are the first women whose excuse was revealed from the heavens“. [No. 1636, Fadha’il Al-Sahabah by Imam Ahmad :Rehmaullah: with the checking of Shaykh Al-Muhaddith Wasiyullah al-‘Abbas Al-Hindi who said it is Sahih.]
From ‘Asim Ibn Kulayb, from his father who said: ‘We went to Ali and Aishah was mentioned. So he [Ali] said:”The Khaleelah (the most beloved female) of the Messenger of Allah
“. [Hadith Hassan, Dhahabi said it’s chain is authentic]
Here Ibn Kathir’s Tafsir in regards to the incident of Al-Ifk
Ammar happily accepts weak narrations – like the one that includes Abu Bakr and Omar into the slander – yet he rejects the Sahih narrations by Aisha and Ibn Abbas the HASHIMI. That tells alot about this man, for those who really seek the truth.
Additional rebuttals:
It would take ages to refute every point in Ammar’s video for several reasons. The first is that he barely cites his sources. At times, he mentions specifics that one not find in the narrations. Take for example the part in which he says that Ali was trying to beat a confession out of Buraira. We couldn’t find this, this is because this is absolutely made-up, to stir the emotions of his followers (just like he made-up some extra additions in the part where Aisha refused to take back her accusation, there is no such thing mentioned in any Sunni or Shia Hadith!). There is also a problem with his approach on history. He assumes that there is an agreement over everything that he says. For example, he argues that Saad bin Muadh died before the event, and that there is a consensus among historians that the event of Al-Ifk happened in the year 6 AH. However, Musa bin Uqbah, whose Tarikh is arguably better than Ibn Ishaaq, suggests that Al-Ifk happened in the year 4 AH. So, there is room for the questioning of historical dates pertaining to these matters and nothing is completely set in stone with the existence of these differences of opinion. However, the view of the majority seems to be that the event did take place in the year 6 AH, and that is fine since mistakes do happen in these kinds of narrations.
It is also interesting to note that the problem with such contradictions in the narration seems to go back to the fact that it is narrated by several Tabi’een who heard it from Aisha. Al-Zuhri narrates this hadith through all of them together without differentiating each narration from each other. It seems that this is one of the reasons why the scholars didn’t isolate a certain narrator as the person that made the mistake. Most importantly, none of these contradictions imply any form of foul play. These are mistakes at best. Of course, the biggest issue with Ammar’s lecture is the alternative he gives. If he just stayed quiet it would have been a better lecture. However, instead he quoted Tafsir Al-Qummi, with weak chains (a good number of Shia scholars completely reject that book) are also weak and do not come close to the authenticity of the narration of Aisha or Ibn Abbas. Also to argue that Ibn Abbas wasn’t there are the time is a weak argument. There is no reason to believe that because he didn’t witness these actions that he assumed wrong for a total of 50+ years without clarifying with other witnesses.
Confusion in regards to some narrators:
Another Shubha by Ammar (old and cheap one which he has taken from Rafidhi websites) is in regards to a certain Sahabi who has been mentioned in the famous (and lenghty) Al-Ifk narration (NOTE, the narration itself nukes Rafidhism for it proves that the wives ARE of the AHL AL-BAYT of the Prophet according to the Prophet HIMSELF)
«يَامَعْشَرَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ مَنْ يَعْذِرُنِي مِنْ رَجُلٍ قَدْ بَلَغَنِي أَذَاهُ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِي، فَوَاللهِ مَا عَلِمْتُ عَلَى أَهْلِي إِلَّا خَيْرًا، وَلَقَدْ ذَكَرُوا رَجُلًا مَا عَلِمْتُ عَلَيْهِ إِلَّا خَيْرًا، وَمَا كَانَ يَدْخُلُ عَلَى أَهْلِي إِلَّا مَعِي»
……….
فقام سعد بن معاذ الأنصاري فقال أنا أعذرك منه يا رسول الله إن كان من الأوس ضربنا عنقه وإن كان من إخواننا الخزرج أمرتنا ففعلنا أمرك
“… so Allah’s Messenger got up (and addressed) the people (after Aisha had been accused of adultery by the HYPOCRITES) and asked for somebody who would take revenge on Abdullah Ibn Ubay Ibn Salool. Allah’s Apostle, while on the pulpit, said, “Who will relieve me from a man who has hurt me by slandering my AHL AL-BAYT? By Allah, I know nothing EXCEPT good about my Ahl (family)“.
[…] so (Saad Ibn) Muaadh stood up and said: Allah’s Messenger, I defend your honour against him. If he belong to the tribe of Aus we would strike his neck and if he belongs to the tribe of our brother Khazraj and you order us we would comply with your order […]
[A very long Hadith in Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6673, Chapter 10: HADITH PERTAINING TO THE LIE ABOUT ‘A’ISHA SIDDIQA (ALLAH BE PLEASED WITH HER) AND ACCEPTING OF REPENTANCE OF THOSE WHO BROUGHT FALSE ALLEGATION ABOUT HERBook 037]
Nakhjavani makes a big deal out of that and mentions the mistakes in the narration by stating that the Sahabi Saad Ibn Muaadh was dead long time before, to be precice, he was dead after the battle of Khandaq which was in 5AH, according the majority of Sunni historians, hence Saad Ibn Muaadh was not alive when the incident of Al-Ifk 5/6AH occured, for the incident of Al-Ifk was after the Ghazwa of Bani Mustalaq (which was AFTER the battle of Khandaq were Muaadh died!). How can then Saad Ibn Muadh be mentioned in the narration (NOTE, he is NOT a narrator!)
Sounds funky and exciting, but be asured that the Rafidhi did nothing but recycling old (repeated) Shubuhat by his fellow Rafidha propagandists, that have been refuted (although not in English) thousands of times in Arabic, but he (just like his “Ayatullahs”) keeps recycling rubbish in the hope that most Rafidha (anyway) and even Sunni laymen have no clue about these contradictions/mistakes and the answers to them, so he just mentions as much as he can to finally reach his goal, which is discarding the whole Sahih narration and basically accusing Aisha of being a liar.
Rebuttal:
Firstly some scholars like Musa Ibn Uqba said that the Ghazwa of Al-Mustalaq (after which the incident of Al-Ifk happened) occured in the year 4AH and not as the Jumhoor (majority) say in the year 5/6AH, i.e. he argues that it happened BEFORE the battle of Khandaq, hence the presence of Muaadh is not problematic at all (since he died in 5AH).
Besides that, the Hadith in Bukhari and Muslim (actually a RIWAYAH/NARRATION, since it is not a saying of the Prophet) is a very long Hadith, and mistakes do happen in these kinds of narrations. It is also interesting to note that the problem with such contradictions in the narration seems to go back to the fact that it is narrated by several tabi’een who heard it from A’isha. Al-Zuhri narrates this hadith through all of them together without differentiating each narration from each other. It seems that this is one of the reasons why the scholars didn’t isolate a certain narrator as the person that made the mistake. However, the problem lies most probably in Alqama bin Waqqas, since we haven’t seen any other narrations that mention Saad bin Muadh except for the ones that he is in.
Very long Hadith, with lots of details, are a difficult task in terms of memorisation, even for people with a strong Hifdh (memory) it is problematic, so these mistakes do happen but certainly do not change the major issues of an event/incident i.e. in our case the fact that without a shred of doubt Aisha was the one being accused and the fact that the ayahs about the innocence of the one being accused were definately revealed (acc. to all major and notable historians) before MARIA could have ever become the Prophet’s wife i.e. they were revealed for the Mother of the Believers Aisha.
Ibn Ishaq mentions the incident and clarifies the issue about Saad Ibn Muadh:
. وقال محمد بن إسحاق إن غزوة بني المصطلق كانت في سنة ست بعد الخندق وذكر فيها حديث الإفك إلا أنه قال عن الزهري عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة عن عائشة فذكر الحديث .فقال فقام أسيد بن الحضير فقال أنا أعذرك منه فرد عليه سعد بن عبادة ولم يذكر سعد بن معاذ . قال أبو محمد بن حزم : وهذا هو الصحيح الذي لا شك فيه وذكر سعد بن معاذ وهم لأن سعد بن معاذ مات إثر فتح بني قريظة بلا شك وكانت في آخر ذي القعدة من السنة الرابعة وغزوة بني المصطلق في شعبان من السنة السادسة بعد سنة وثمانية أشهر من موت سعد وكانت المقاولة بين الرجلين المذكورين بعد الرجوع من غزوة بني المصطلق بأزيد من خمسين ليلة .
Summary:
Ibn Ishaaq (like the absolute majority) mentions that the incident of Al-Ifk happened in the year 6AH, after the battle of Khandaq, he also mentions the Hadith of Al-Ifk, with a slight but important difference than in the Sahihayn:
[…] so Asyad Ibn Al-Hudhayr (instead of Saad Ibn Mu’adh) stood up and said: Allah’s Messenger, I defend your honour against him […]
As you can see, he did not mentioned Saad Ibn Muaadh and Ibn Hazm agreed with him, this is (as explained before) because Saad Ibn Muaadh had passed away (at least) a year ago.
Also remember that the only narration mentioning Saad Ibn Muaadh is the narration of where Alqama Ibn Waqqas is in the chain, so he most propably made the mistake.
Nasibis in the chain?
26:00. He says that Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyib (the major Tabi’i, also known as the leader of the Tabi’is!) didn’t give a damn about Zayn Al-Abidin and when being asked if he attends (Ali Ibn Al-Hussein) Zayn Al-Abidin’s (Rafidha believe him to be their “4th infallible Imam”, according to us Muslims he was a major Tabi’i, the son of Al-Hussein Ibn Ali) funeral, he replied that two mustahhab/recommended units of prayer are more beloved to him than praying for Zayn Al-Abidin. Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyib is one of the Tabi’i narrators of the incident of Al-Ifk, so this the deceiver Nakhjavani wants to get rid of him and simply declare him unreliable. The huge accusation Nakhjavani made against Imam Al-Musayyib is of course done without any reference (as usual), hence we do the job for him, Sunnis and Shias so all can see and judge how literally shamelessly Shia scholars and preachers lie:
Nakhjavani quoted accusation against a top scholars of the Salaf (Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyib) from one of their greatest “Shaykhs”, a master of lies and fabrications i.e. Al-Mufeed (the lunatic who claimed to have refuted Omar Ibn Al-Khattab in a DREAM!)
وقال المفيد في الأركان: وأما ابن المسيب فليس يدفع نصبه وما اشتهر عنه
من الرغبة عن الصلاة على زين العابدين عليه السلام قيل له: ألا تصلي على
هذا الرجل الصالح من أهل البيت الصالح؟ فقال: صلاة ركعتين أحب إلي من
الصلاة على الرجل الصالح من أهل البيت الصالح، وروي عن مالك أنه كان
خارجيا إباضيا، والله أعلم بحقيقة الحال
In any case, Rafidha schlolars themselves doubt the authenticity of the above (i.e. what Nakhjavani said about Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyab), here a Shia website:
http://qadatona.org/…ربي/الرجال/5190
فإن كتاب الأركان وإن ذكره النجاشي والشيخ في كتب
الشيخ المفيد إلا أنه ليس من كتبه المعروفة، ومن ثم لم يصل إلى الشيخ المجلسي
ولا إلى صاحب الوسائل ولا إلى الشيخ النوري (قدس الله أسرارهم) مع
حرصهم الشديد على تتبع الكتب والرواية عنها، إذن لم يثبت أن طريق الشهيد
Summary:
The book where Al-Mufid mentioned that incident (about the funeral of Zayn Al-Abidin) is not realible, since it is not even established if it was Al-Mufid’s book!
Besides, the Rafidha scholars themselves potray Saeeb Ibn Al-Musayyib in a good light, they claimed he was a sort of hidden/undercover Rafidhi and student of Imam Al-Zayn Al-Abidin, others say that he was a sincere (misguided) Sunni who loved Al-Zayn Al-Abidin. source.
Here an excerpt from the source above:
A young man from Quraysh was sitting in an assembly with Sa’id b. al-Musayyib and saw Ali b. al-Husayn, peace be on them. “Who is that, Abu Muhammad?” the Qurash; asked Sa’id b. al- Musayyib. “That is the lord of worshippers (Abidin), Ali b. al-Husayn b. Ali b. Abi Talib, peace be on them,” he answered.
Allah exposes them at their own hands! This vile Rafidhi “Nakshawani” accused the major Tabi’i (Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyib) of being an enemy (i.e. Nasibi) of Imam Al-Sajjad/Zayn Al-Abidin, yet (ironically) most likely it was Saeed Al-Musayyib (some say Al-Zuhri) who first called him (Ali Ibn Al-Hussein Ibn Abi Talib) the “Lord/master of worshippers” (Zayn Al-Abidin)!
It was narrated from Salih ibn Hassan that a man said to Said ibn Mussaib: “I haven’t seen anyone more godfearing that such and such”. He asked: “Have you seen Ali ibn al-Hussain?” He answered negative. Said said to him: “You didn’t seen anyone more godfearing than him” (“Sifatus saffa” p 417.)
Most of Imam Zayn Al-Aabidin’s narrations are from Abu Hurayrah and Sa’eed ibn al-Musayyib. They did not even let political rivalries impede their persuit of knowledge. That’s why we have Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrating Hadeeth from the Ummawi Khalifah Marwan bin al-Hakam.
It has been reported in SUNNI AND SHIA books that Saeed Ibn Al-Musayyib said about Zayn Al-Abidin:
قال سعيد بن المسيب: ما رأيت أورع منه.
“I have not seen anyone more pious than him”!
Even Rafidha scholars use this quote, so now Ammar knows better?
“Ayatullah” Al-Milani quotes the same saying above on his website (his source is a SHIA book!):
(Ibn Shihab) Al-Zuhri (also Tabi’i) (d. 124/742) was a well known jurist and traditionist and is credited with being the first to call the Imam by the title ‘Zayn al-‘Abidin’.
And there are generally many statements by the Salaf in praise of the great Imams of the Ahl Al-Bayt, who were all Sunnis and innocent of the Rafidha:
Zaynalabidin, al-Baqir and as-Sadiq
there are so many deceptions and blatant lies in his lecture, the more we watched it the more we found out (we probably still missed alot, due to the huge number of lies), and how truthful the Salaf and their followers were:
Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah. the thorn in the throat of the Rafidha had already said:
ولهذا كانت الرافضة من أجهل الناس وأضلهم كما أن النصارى من أجهل الناس. والرافضة من أخبث الناس كما أن اليهود من أخبث الناس ففيهم نوع من ضلال النصارى ونوع من خبث اليهود.
منهاج السنة 2/65)
“The Rafidah (“Shias”) are from among the most ignorant and misguided people just as the Nasara (“Christians”) are from among the most ignorant people. And the Rafidah are one of the filthiest people as the Jews are one of the filthiest people, for among them [the Rafidah] are the types of the miguidance of the Nasara and the filth of the Jews”. [Minhaj Al-Sunnah 2/65]
And before someone jumps up and claims that what Ibn Taimiyyah said is a “Wahhabi” thing, then know, o Muslim, may Allah have mercy on you, that the giants of the Salaf had the same opinion in regards to the the Rafidha arch liars:
قال الإمام الشافعي: ما رأيت أحدًا أشهد بالزور من الرافضة
Imam Al-Shafi’i said: “I have not seen anyone among the people of desires more famous for falsehood (bearing witness to more lies) than the Rafidha“.(narrated by Imam Al-Lalaka’ie, Imam Ibn Taymiyyah in his Minhaj, Ikhtisaar Uloom Al-Hadeeth, by Ibn Katheer and many other books)
___________________________
PS: Every single Shubha of Nakhjavani (and Yasser Al-Khabith) and other Rawafidh use have been answered a long time ago, here some links refuting every single doubt of them, it’s really so much, we try our best to update this thread, so keep visiting it, Inshaallah:
Arabic:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showthread.php?t=181901
http://bayanelislam.net/Suspicion.aspx?id=03-02-0048&value=&type=
English:
Related to this topic: Part 1: Defence of Ahlelbayt[wives of Prophet/mothers of believers] from the Religious Slanderers
For those who understand Arabic, here a lecture by one of Shaykh Dr Othman Al-Khamis’ students, respdonding to similar doubts by the Kafir Yasser Al-Habib, who holds the SAME belief as Ammar the NakhJAVANI:
Nakhjavani, Yasser Al-Khabith, Khomeini (who called Aisha more impure than a dog) are all on the same Kafir Deen, the only difference is their approach:
finally for those who can ponder:
Verily! Those who brought forth the slander (against ‘Aishah the wife of the Prophet SAW) are a group among you. Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment. (An-Nur 24:11)
Why then, did not the believers, men and women, when you heard it (the slander) think good of their own people and say: “This (charge) is an obvious lie?” (An-Nur 24:12)
Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they (the slanderers) have not produced witnesses! Then with Allâh they are the liars. (An-Nur 24:13)
Had it not been for the Grace of Allâh and His Mercy unto you in this world and in the Hereafter, a great torment would have touched you for that whereof you had spoken. (An-Nur 24:14)
When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allâh it was very great. (An-Nur 24:15)
And why did you not, when you heard it, say? “It is not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You (O Allâh) this is a great lie.” (An-Nur 24:16)
Allâh forbids you from it and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers. (An-Nur 24:17)
Brother, you may refute however you wish. However, please be respectful. Don’t call a scholar like Sayed Ammar a coward and this and that. Refute his beliefs, but don’t be disrespectful
You should also note that the Shi’i believe in whatever opposes the ‘amman (i.e. the sunnis). If contradictions exist between the two schools of thought, in this case A’isha being accused of adultery (from the sunni’s) or Maryam the coptic (from the Shi’i) the Shi’i will take their sources, narrations and scholars to be more authentic. This is where the big difference lies between both school of thoughts.
You right “sister”_in_deen …
Thanks for remembering us and our readers about (yet another) satanic and plain ridicolous basic belief (full of grudge and nifaq) of the Rafidha, which says:
“OPPOSE THE “AAMAH” (Sunnis) for therein lies prosperity”(A filthy, Nifaqi principle attributed to Imam Al Rddha! Hurr Al Alimi one of the greatest scholars of Shiism said: وقال الحرعن هذه الأخبار بأنـها: قد تجاوزت حد التواتر، “These narrations have passed even the leves of TAWATOR:
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=16768&#entry110158
Also “Hidayah”, it is ‘Aammah, not “‘ammman”. Anyways, this disgusting belief of Rafidhis is so stupid, because Sunnis themselves differ in Furu’ issues, so no wonder how confused the Shias were after hearing such (fabricated) statements by their “infallibles”. Also, only a fool would trust weak and even forged narrations and ignore SOLID chains (with Ahl Al-Bayt narrators like Ibn Abbas)!
These are very good points and may Allah bless both of you for your well thought out questions. Again my brother, gift2shias, please don’t call my Imams or me Rafidhis, it is disrespectful. Please also refrain from using Ad Hominems as well my Muslim brother, let us maintain the Khulq of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Sister Hidaya, it is a very good question. In the thought of accepting hadeeth, we must look at the concept of infallibility. The fact that those five you mentioned in the Quran have never been touched by impurity, their words are stronger. For example, if I told you, would you rather drink the cleanest water, or water that is clean, but not the best option. Logic tells us to drink the cleanest water and Allah SWT is telling us Ahlul Bayt are the clearest. The moment we believe prophets and Imams can sin, then on the day of judgement I can stand in front of Allah and say not even your guided ones could follow the message correctly, how do you expect me to. In Sura Shams Allah says wa Nafsiw wa ma sawaha and it continues until wa qad Kaba man dasa ha, that Allah has completed and perfected our soul. The moment Allah says that, it means we can reach that potential. If we do reach that potential, and Prophets didnt, then we should be teaching the prophets, and since the prophets are teaching us Allahs religion, then when we are teaching the prophets how to act, then we are in essence teaching Allah his religion even though in the very first verse of Sura Hujurat, sura 49, it says o you who believe, don’t put yourselves in front of Allah and his messenger.
To answer your second question on whether the other members of the family other than the holy five peace be upon them, in Sura 2 verse 124, it states when Ibrahim asks Allah will your covenant reach my offspring, Allah replies, my covenant will not reach the unjust. Even Allah is identifying that even though the children of Abdul Muttalib are descendants of Prophet Ibrahim As, not all of them will be free from sin or even represent the message of Allah
Correct me If I am wrong, but would the Shi’i accept Ibn Abbas as one of the Ahlulbayt? They believe in Ahlulbayt Khaas and Aam. The khaas ones are those mentioned in the Qur’an 33:33 (Mohammad (saw), Fatima, Ali, Hassan and Hussain) and the rest are Aam who are fallible and can make mistakes. Would this be enough to convince them…? Apparently, my work colleague who is Shi’i claims there are many narrations attributed to the Imams of the Ahlulbayt which talk on accepting that which opposes the ‘ammah.
I have heard this nonsense before…if the whole incident as narrated by the Shiiite is true, why wasn’t ‘Aisha punished for accusing a chaste woman – I’m sure there is a punishment for this [Surah 25:1-5] why did the prophet not carry it out, at the very least he could have divorced her – but he didn’t…oh right the Mehdi will come and do this, because the religion is incomplete – and so Allah is a liar when he says “…akmaltukum deenkum”
Seems like to me the narrators of the weak akhbar who came hundreds of years later and the ignorant shias (who came a 1400 years later) know more then he who received revelation from the heavens…
These are very good points and may Allah bless both of you for your well thought out questions. Again my brother, gift2shias, please don’t call my Imams or me Rafidhis, it is disrespectful. Please also refrain from using Ad Hominems as well my Muslim brother, let us maintain the Khulq of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Sister Hidaya, it is a very good question. In the thought of accepting hadeeth, we must look at the concept of infallibility. The fact that those five you mentioned in the Quran have never been touched by impurity, their words are stronger. For example, if I told you, would you rather drink the cleanest water, or water that is clean, but not the best option. Logic tells us to drink the cleanest water and Allah SWT is telling us Ahlul Bayt are the clearest. The moment we believe prophets and Imams can sin, then on the day of judgement I can stand in front of Allah and say not even your guided ones could follow the message correctly, how do you expect me to. In Sura Shams Allah says wa Nafsiw wa ma sawaha and it continues until wa qad Kaba man dasa ha, that Allah has completed and perfected our soul. The moment Allah says that, it means we can reach that potential. If we do reach that potential, and Prophets didnt, then we should be teaching the prophets, and since the prophets are teaching us Allahs religion, then when we are teaching the prophets how to act, then we are in essence teaching Allah his religion even though in the very first verse of Sura Hujurat, sura 49, it says o you who believe, don’t put yourselves in front of Allah and his messenger.
To answer your second question on whether the other members of the family other than the holy five peace be upon them, in Sura 2 verse 124, it states when Ibrahim asks Allah will your covenant reach my offspring, Allah replies, my covenant will not reach the unjust. Even Allah is identifying that even though the children of Abdul Muttalib are descendants of Prophet Ibrahim As, not all of them will be free from sin or even represent the message of Allah
@Kazim
The problem with infallibility is that it is not a provable concept, and it is of no benefit to anyone…for example, if we take at face value all those people under the cloak are infallible what use it is to you or I because we didn’t meet any of these people (nor their decendents) and all the religion was transmitted to us from people who were non-infallible – the Quran was compiled by the companions, its rules of recitation was agreed on mass by the companions and their students and that was what was transmitted to us – we don’t have a recitation method that is from the ahlul-bayt (Ali, his students, As-Sibtayn and their students and their decendents after them ridwan allah t’ala ‘anhum), even if we did it wouldn’t matter because as soon as you stick one non-infallible person in the chain then infallibility becomes useless, all the books of traditions are filled with the names of non-infallible people (both Shia and Sunni). All the traditions in the Shia books are pointless because before reaching As-Sadiq or Al-Baqir their is a chain of non-infallible people there, so you are left with the same issue as everyone else, how is any Imam’s infallibility transmitted to you? It’s not, so you are back to square one.
As for sinning and not sinning, it is not in the spirit of Islam to look for faults in other Muslims (especially those who are died and buried) we should speak only good of them and ask Allah to forgive them and us…but as a point of fact, ibn abbas (ra) who is coincidentally from Ahlul-Bayt criticised Ali (ra), also from Ahlul-Bayt, for burning the Zanadiqa – he didn’t seem to believe in infallibility either…
AsalamAlaykum brother,
That was a very good refutation and may Allah guide us both to Sirat Mustaqeem. I just would like to respectfully answer a couple of your arguements.
The first thing I would like to answer is your refutation to infallibility. You said it wasn’t a provable concept however it can be proven through the Quran in sura 33 verse number 33 where it says Allah desires to keep away uncleanliness from the people of the house, may peace be upon all of them. When we say infallibility can’t be proven, we are going against the Quran. You may say they were made infallible after so they did commit sin in the first part of their life, however it is made evident by the words keep away that they were already infallible and Allah wished to keep the uncleanliness away. Also when you say there are non infallible people in the chain, it is very important that you take the Hadith from those who were truth tellers and not the liars and you can find that out from Ibn Kathirs tafsir.
Also, you have a logical flaw in your arguement. When you say how are the imams infallibility transferred to you, how is anyone’s truth transferred to you. You said their answers can’t reach me as it was said. How can we as Muslims take any single Hadith then. All of our narrations came from flawed people so we should just dump the religion entirely because we don’t know what’s real and what’s fake. What if RasoolAllah said your supposed to pray with your hands on your head but because of these flawed people, we received the wrong message. Then in Islam, we don’t know what is from Allah and what is a concauction.
I hope this helps brother
May Allah bless you for your calm and extremely respectful refutation
@Kazim Taqi
“The first thing I would like to answer is your refutation to infallibility. You said it wasn’t a provable concept however it can be proven through the Quran in sura 33 verse number 33 where it says Allah desires to keep away uncleanliness from the people of the house, may peace be upon all of them.”
Who are the people of the house, why are the wives not included, as the wife of Ibrahim in the Quran is called Ahlul-Bayt? So the term is ambiguous, secondly where does it say ‘infallible’ (i.e. ma’soom) it says uncleanliness is removed from them if they do what Allah asks of them (from the beginning of the verse, stay in your homes, establish prayer and give zakah and obey the prophet [saw]) this verse is from the Awamir meaning it is a verse to command people to do something, if it was announcing infallibility of the Ahlul-Bayt Allah would say so, but it is prefaced with a list of things they need to do in order for rijs (uncleanliness) to be removed from them.
When we say infallibility can’t be proven, we are going against the Quran. You may say they were made infallible after so they did commit sin in the first part of their life, however it is made evident by the words keep away that they were already infallible and Allah wished to keep the uncleanliness away. Also when you say there are non infallible people in the chain, it is very important that you take the Hadith from those who were truth tellers and not the liars and you can find that out from Ibn Kathirs tafsir.
Truth tellers or liars, neither are ‘infallible’ – people who tell the truth can also make mistakes. As for the Tafsir of ibn Kathir, he mentions the hadith of the cloak, he also mentioned Zaid ibn Arqam saying that the Ahlul-Bayt are Ali his family, Aqil his family and Abbas and his family as it was those for whom Zakat was forbidden – Ikramah also stated that the verse was revealed in relation to just the wives…maybe you haven’t even read Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, that’s why your forwarded as a proof!
Also, you have a logical flaw in your arguement. When you say how are the imams infallibility transferred to you, how is anyone’s truth transferred to you. You said their answers can’t reach me as it was said. How can we as Muslims take any single Hadith then. All of our narrations came from flawed people so we should just dump the religion entirely because we don’t know what’s real and what’s fake. What if RasoolAllah said your supposed to pray with your hands on your head but because of these flawed people, we received the wrong message. Then in Islam, we don’t know what is from Allah and what is a concauction.
I hope this helps brother
May Allah bless you for your calm and extremely respectful refutation
With regards to the Mutawatir Ahadith and the verses of the Quran, they have appeared in different times and different place so much so that it would be impossible to tell the same lie over and over again – and no one disputes in matters of the Mutawatir anyway – the verses of the Quran nor things like the Raka’ of prayer – which we have received via mutawatir means, i.e. it has been repeated from generation to generation so it can’t be fake.
As for dumping the religion because we can’t tell the difference between truth and falsehood – the manner how the people of the Sunnah have done this over the years is by collected the names of narrators and scrutinizing them (‘ilm al-rijal) and then passing judgement on the traditions, these traditions are singly narrated (ahad akhbar) and the majority of the religious transactional matters are made from this, i.e. rituals and things of that nature – things to do with our Aqa’id (belief) are from mass narrated sources (Quran, Ijma, Mutawatir reports). Going back to your concerns, if you want to dump your religion because you can’t tell what is fake or not then that is your problem, not mine – we trust the narrations of the generations before us, and they scrutinized hadith for us also and declared what was sahih, da’if etc – mores the pity that your scholars didn’t do the same for you – now the problem that you face is two fold;
1. Your central argument is that your opinion is right, because it is from the Ahlul-Bayt and they are infallible…
My answer to that is whether they are infallible or not is irrelevant because non-infallible people constructed your religion, which is the same for the Sunnis who received their religion from companions and their followers who were non-infallible also, the infallibility of the prophet (saw) is preserved in the Quran, which the Sunnis preserved and in the entirety of the Hadith literature.
2. The Quran was compiled and spread by the non-infallible Sunnites, this can be seen in any Quran which at the back states that it is (e.g. Hafs recitation) in the narration of hafs bin sulayman ibn mugheera al-asdi al-kufi, in the recitation method of ‘asim bin abi-najood al-kufi from abi abd ar-rahman abduallah bin habib from uthman bin affan, ali bin abi-talib, zaid bin thabit and ubayy bin ka’ab from the prophet (saw) – this is a simplified chain, it can be found to be more expansive in other books about the Asaneed of the Quran, which shows generation after generation of the people learning the Quran and preserving the chain from which of their Shaykhs they learnt it from and which recitation they had learn (of which there are 7).
Where is the chain for Ahlul-Bayt (which has only infallible persons in it) and which is their recitation method (Hafs, Warsh, Qalun, Duri…)?
AsalamAlaykum my respected brother, that was a very well thought out answer and may Allah help us both in finding the truth
The first refutation you had is who is the Ahlul Bayt as Ibrahim’s wife was also referred to as Ahlul Bayt. In Sura 49:6, the fasiq is Walid ibn Uqbah(I’m not sure if he is a high figure in your school but in our books it is written he was the fasiq and if he is respected in your school, I’m not meaning to take a shot at you and apologize in advance) but a fasiq is one who lies. There have been points in my life where I have been a fasiq, I have lied as well as everyone around us. That specific verse is speaking about Walid however. If you look in 28:4, it doesn’t say the name of Prophet Muhammad but I can say it was revealed about Prophet Ibrahim. If I just throw out people I want the verse to be about, the whole religion will be changed. That specific verse speaks about those who the cloak was put over. Keep in mind, it’s not us from the Jaffari school of thought who say this, but other schools in Islam which speak about the holy five which is RasoolAllah, imam Ali, Bibi Fatima, Imam Hassan, and Imam Hussain peace be upon all of them.
In the second arguement you took an unnecessary shot at me brother. Please let us maintain our manners my respected brother. Also, I never said truth tellers are infallible, but it’s logical, would you rather take Islam from a liar or a person who time and time again told the truth.
The Mutawatir Hadith in our books have been repeated as well, so we can’t take those in our arguement because we both follow different books.
Going back to dumping the religion, I have a perfect view of what religion I practice brother, and if you have full faith that someone before you didn’t dump their religion on you is actually your problem.
The fact that you are constantly taking shots at me and the faith that I practice shows that you haven’t been reading up on your faith too much
In the next response, please be more respectful
May Allah bless you
@Kazim Taqi
AsalamAlaykum my respected brother, that was a very well thought out answer and may Allah help us both in finding the truth
Wa ‘Aliekum As-Salam,
The first refutation you had is who is the Ahlul Bayt as Ibrahim’s wife was also referred to as Ahlul Bayt.
I am not interested in refuting you, this is an example of how the term ‘Ahlul-Bayt’ is ambigious, it could mean the five under the cloak, it could also include the wives (ra) in exclusivity as well as in addition to, and also the progeny of Ja’afar, Aqil and Abbas (ra) for whom Zakat was forbidden – on what basis have you restricted the traditions to one interpretation and have rejected the others? You referenced ibn Kathir, I was wondering whether you have read his tafsir because about this specific verse in his tafsir, he produces all of these traditions and doesn’t favour one over the other. In any case this is not a proof to follow anyone in exclusion to others, as we are commanded to follow/obey Allah and his prophet (saw).
In Sura 49:6, the fasiq is Walid ibn Uqbah(I’m not sure if he is a high figure in your school but in our books it is written he was the fasiq and if he is respected in your school, I’m not meaning to take a shot at you and apologize in advance) but a fasiq is one who lies. There have been points in my life where I have been a fasiq, I have lied as well as everyone around us. That specific verse is speaking about Walid however. If you look in 28:4, it doesn’t say the name of Prophet Muhammad but I can say it was revealed about Prophet Ibrahim. If I just throw out people I want the verse to be about, the whole religion will be changed. That specific verse speaks about those who the cloak was put over. Keep in mind, it’s not us from the Jaffari school of thought who say this, but other schools in Islam which speak about the holy five which is RasoolAllah, imam Ali, Bibi Fatima, Imam Hassan, and Imam Hussain peace be upon all of them.
Sorry you have lost me there, I don’t know what you are talking about…?
In the second arguement you took an unnecessary shot at me brother. Please let us maintain our manners my respected brother. Also, I never said truth tellers are infallible, but it’s logical, would you rather take Islam from a liar or a person who time and time again told the truth.
In my previous response I said to you that the claim that you have made for following the Ahlul-Bayt (i.e. Ali, Hassan, Hussein and his progeny salawat allah ‘aliehum) is that they are infallible, they very well maybe, but show me how you have recieved this infallibility – you are relient on non-infallible people to transmit their information to you, non-infallible doesn’t automatically mean liars, non-infallible means that they are not above making mistakes, in which case your agument of following a better source of Islam, i.e. the purified, infallible progeny of the prophet (saw), falls flat on its face because you like your opponents are relient on people who aren’t infallaible to teach, transmit and promuglate your religion from those infallibles – it is not an issue of logic, it is an issue of proof – how is your taking the relgion from the ‘infallible’ Imams any different from other schools taking their relgion from the prophet (saw) via non-infallible companions and tabieen?
The Mutawatir Hadith in our books have been repeated as well, so we can’t take those in our arguement because we both follow different books.
Mutawatir in your methodology is different then is other schools, for example Mutawatir in the Shiite ‘Jaafari’ school is a chain from one imam to another where is it explicitly stated so for example; Al-Kadhim narrated from his father Abu Abdullah, from his father Al-Baqir from his father Zain Al-Abideyn, from his father Al-Husayn from Amir Al-Mumineen… it is different in other schools who require a heavier burden of proof, i.e. that the transmission is from one group to another group through the generations until it was recorded and that the origination of the report cannot be from a single person (after the prophet sal allahu ‘aliehi wa salem) no matter if he/she be a companion or follower because there is a possibility of error if it were to come from a single source, even if that source is a truthful one. there can be no error when the same words and reports are narrated over the course of generations in various locations.
Going back to dumping the religion, I have a perfect view of what religion I practice brother, and if you have full faith that someone before you didn’t dump their religion on you is actually your problem.
Good for you! You have made many claims of ‘logic’ about following infallible peoples, but yet you have not produced any proof how you are following or recieving infallible information from people who are not infallible?
Now please answer from whom did you recieve the recitation of the Quran, if it is from Ahlul-Bayt show me how the infallibility is maintained when you have non-infalliables teaching the Quran.
This is one of the chains of those students of ibn Mas’ud (ra) who learnt Quran from him:
Abu Amr bin Al-Ala’a –> Asim bin Abi Najood –> Abdul Rahman Al-Sulami –> Ibn Mas’ud
Abu Amr bin Al-Ala’a –> Asim bin Abi Najood –> Zirr bin Hubaish –> Ibn Mas’ud
Abu Amr bin Al-Ala’a –> Asim bin Abi Najood –> Sa’ad bin Iyas –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Ilqimah bin Qais –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Al-Aswad bin Yazeed –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Zaid bin Wahb –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Masrooq bin Al-Ajda’a –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Ubaidah bin Amr –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Al-A’amash –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Zir bin Hubaish –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Talha bin Musarif –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Al-Aswad bin Yazeed –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Talha bin Musarif –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Zaid bin Wahb –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Talha bin Musarif –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Masrooq bin Al-Ajda’a –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Talha bin Musarif –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Ubaidah bin Amr –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Talha bin Musarif –> Yahya bin Wathhab –> Zir bin Hubaish –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Abu Ishaaq Al-Subai’ee –> Abu Abdulrahman Al-Sulami –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Abu Ishaaq Al-Subai’ee –> Zir bin Hubaish –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Abu Ishaaq Al-Subai’ee –> Asim bin Dhumra –> Ibn Mas’ud
Hamza bin Habeeb –> Abu Ishaaq Al-Subai’ee –> Al-Harith Al-Hamadani –> Ibn Mas’ud
As you can there is a group of people who learnt Quran from Ibn Mas’ud, there are similar chains for other companions (such as Ubay ibn Ka’b, Uthman, Ali and so on) which clearly shows the narration of the Quran from these companions to the generations proceeding them and so on until the present day – this is the best of the Mutawatir!
Can you produce the chains for Ahlul-Bayt and their recitation, or do you have none? In which case your following of them is a claim that has no proof.
Regarding Ali beating Buraira, see Ibn Hisham and Taareekh Tabari
http://www.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=58&ID=598&idfrom=1251&idto=1254&bookid=58&startno=3
http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/3475_%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AE-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B7%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A2/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_267